Westorchard PTA chair argues for fifth section of second grade
August 20, 2010
by Christine Yeres
“I can tell you tonight,” said Interim Superintendent John Chambers in his August 10 supervisor’s report to the board of education, “that all sections at all the elementary schools are indeed within our class guidelines, so I’m making no recommendation for further action. But at some places,” Chambers continued, “we’re pushing the top of the guidelines.”
He named Westorchard Elementary as a case in point, with four classes of 23 students each entering second grade in September. Chambers characterized the principal of Westorchard, Jim Skoog, as an ardent advocate, communicating “almost daily” with the superintendent on the issue. But at this point, said Chambers, “we are within guidelines at all schools.”
During the board’s public comment period, Haley Ferraro, Westorchard Elementary PTA chair and parent of a second grader, informed the board that second grade class size was of great concern to Westorchard parents. Each of the four classes of second grade are now at their limit of 23 students each, and, more significant than these numbers, she told board members, is the composition of the class. “If you’ve talked to the first grade teachers,” she told the board, this fall’s second graders “are quite the handful.” Consequently, Ferraro said, she worried that “middle of the road” students who are less “rambunctious” would receive less attention in classrooms filled to the limit.
“An equity issue,” says PTA chair
Ferraro pointed out that, as a matter of equity, the other two elementary schools, Grafflin and Roaring Brook, each had five classes of second graders, and smaller class sizes—20 students per class at Grafflin, 19.4 at Roaring Brook. “That’s an issue with our [Westorchard] parents,” said Ferraro.
“What is the tipping point?” Ferraro asked board members. “Is it a twenty-fourth kid in one class? If so, there are four or five houses for sale in my neighborhood. I will put signs up that say, ‘Please, Second Graders Only’! Or, because these are not flush times, is it the teachers’ contract number of 25—are we going to go that far? Every parent wants to know the answer to that question.”
“We certainly don’t want sections taken from the other two elementary schools, but there is no equity in this situation,” Ferraro continued. “Our [Westorchard] teachers can teach to 23 kids in a class —our teachers are exceptional—we’re just saying they shouldn’t have to. There is money in the budget. We just put away $1.5 million [in reserve funds], didn’t we? I don’t know where it came from. Why is it this year the money can’t be found for another section of second graders at Westorchard? It’s what parents want.”
Benton responded, “The equity is in the board’s policy guidelines. No section is larger than 23, no matter where you are, and we can’t control how many students are at each school. Every year we go through this spreadsheet analysis, taking the number of students at the grade level and dividing by the class size number. As far as the tipping point, it is one student.”
Chambers added, however, that if the numbers change once school begins, he would not recommend adding another section of second graders. Reached this week, Chambers agreed that, in effect, since letters had gone out announcing teacher and class assignments, that point had been reached and passed.
“I don’t see us going to the teacher contract maximum, though,” said Chambers. “Maybe a student will move [out of the elementary school district]. There’s a little flexibility. But Jim Skoog [the Westorchard principal] has helped us to understand the issue not only in terms of numbers, but also the boy-girl mix, and whether there are learners who would benefit from smaller class size.” And Benton added, “I would see us adding resources to that classroom rather than creating another section. We’re trying to be budget conscious; we’re not in a position to add another teacher where the numbers don’t warrant it.”
One more plea
Ferraro gave it one last try. “How much is a new teacher salary, and how much is the engineer you’re going to hire to assess the [Zauderer] property behind my house?” [See NCNOW.org‘s article in today’s edition, “Board of Ed considers sale of one of its properties”.] Board member Jeffrey Mester responded, “Since there’s no request for proposals, or RFP, required [for an engineer to simply assess the property], it would cost less than $40,000; a teacher salary is more than double that.” Benton guessed “$150,000 with benefits?” Chow corrected that figure downward, to “$110, with benefits.”
Board member Alyson Kiesel asked board members and administrators, “Do we have aides or other resources in the building that can be in those classroom on a regular basis that can be of help in such a situation?”
“I’m sure we do,” Benton responded.
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Kindergarten: not more than 20
Grades 1 and 2: not more than 23
Grades 3 and 4: not more than 25
The above guidelines are also contractual limits on class size. CCSD guidelines make an the exception of second grade by specifying “not more than 23.” The contractual limit for second grade is, as for grades 3 and 4, “not more than 25.”
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As a taxpayer, I support the Board’s position of maintaining class size guidelines. If extra support is needed, it should be provided through the use of aides but another 2nd grade section should NOT be added.
My daughter suffered through a horrendous year last year in first grade at Westorchard. She went from being a happy kindergartener in a class of 18 plus an assistant to being in a class of 23 (14 boys). She cried all the time and begged to stop going to school, complaining that the room was “like a zoo.” She is doing just fine academically, but the school is ruining her and I am very, very upset about the numbers this year. She is the very type of child Westorchard PTA president Haley Ferraro is talking about when she says that “children who are less “rambunctious” would receive “less attention.” It happened last year and it was a nightmare. I have had to spend the whole summer telling this happy little girl that “things will be different this year.” I have my doubts. And I am very disappointed the district couldn’t do something because in all likelihood, my daughter will be seeing a class of 24—not 23—by the time the school year ends.
I have lived here for over 10 years and I must say that I find the PTA’s position always is to spend, spend, spend. There never seems to be a ceiling. This community has proven itself to be a consistent and reliable supporter of the public schools. But there has to be a practical limit. Perhaps the PTA members’ families simply don’t feel the impact of the economic times. While I am happy for them, I must suspect that they are in the minority of the taxpayers. Let’s try and be constructive prior to increasing spending as the only alternative. I like Ms. Kiesel’s practical suggestion and approach. Let’s try to utilize what we have before we spend, spend, spend…
First of all, I would like to know how many years (or decades) have passed since the Chappaqua school district reviewed its guideline of 23 children per class in the second grade. By way of comparison the state of Florida limits by law the size of second grade classes to 18 students. There are irrefutable benefits to limiting class sizes, and if the quality of Chappaqua schools is to be maintained, 23 students per second grade class is unacceptable. Our goal should not be to meet some “average” or “acceptable” standard, but to exceed it significantly.
Second, there is a valid point regarding equity. The 23 students per class at Westorchard is 19% more that the 19.4 average at Roaring Brook. If the difference were 2% or 3% I could understand, but 19% definitely crosses the boundaries of what is fair.
Finally, to say that $110,000 for an additional teacher to solve this problem cannot be found in the $109,000,000 Chappaqua school district budget is laughable. I am highly confident that such a relatively insubstantial amount could be found with little difficulty.
As a parent of a Westorchard second grader I champion Haley Ferraro’s efforts to get the Board of Education to examine the cost of additional teacher support to the burgeoning second grade class. I understand the economic pressures- but I am disappointed that the Board does not appear to be evaluating what is actually happening in the classroom. I have a child who developed a school phobia and struggled with beginning reading problems which passed completely under the teacher’s radar. She was in a first grade classroom where despite the teachers good intentions as well as ongoing communication between teacher and home- most of my child’s issues went unrecognized and unaddressed.
I’ve spoken with many parents in all of the second grade classes who had similar reports. One parent reported her daughter had severe graphomotor issues which her teacher did not recognize. Another said that she had no sense her child’s teacher had the time to address any of the social or emotional needs of the group because she always had a line of kids with individual issues & simply not enough eyes and ears to address everyone.
This is not a problem of incompetent teachers. This is a problem of competent teachers who simply don’t have the time to address those kids who are not as overtly demanding.
I fear that, in the long run, not spending the money to reduce class size will ultimately backfire. There will be hidden costs in addressing kids whose issues were missed in first or second grade. Isn’t there a way to evaluate what’s going on in our childrens’ classrooms rather than stick with a ruling for class size?
Parent of a Westorchard second-grader
Chappaqua Parent,
Good idea. I have been a resident here for nearly 20 years and I think you are right. Maybe we should trying bring class sizes down to 15 students. That way we can triple everyone’s taxes and drive most of us out of town out via sale or foreclosure. That should surely reduce class sizes as families move out of town - if they can get a bid for their house. Yes, let’s focus your anger on the school board for trying to be fiscally responsible. How dare they…
No one is asking for 15 students per class, just equitability between the schools and fairness for our children. Perhaps your children are already out of the school system and have had all the benefits of the Chappaqua School System during the flush times. We pay extremely high taxes as well and want the same high quality education your children were fortunate enough to have had. The school board should be applauded for being fiscally responsible but not if it diminishes the quality or equity of education the students receive. Let them find other places to cut budgets rather than on the backs of 2nd graders at Westorchard Elemenary School.
When I first started teaching in Chappaqua, most class sizes were 18-20—at the Middle School! Discipline problems were minimal, extra help was plentiful and there was a nurturing quality at each school that fostered excellence. Now, my classes are 26-28 students. It’s pandemonium. Normal middle school exuberance is fine in a smaller class, but in a large one, instructional time and quality are compromised by time wasted settling the students down. There are not enough teaching assistants and the Special Education teachers are overloaded. When classes change, the hallways are raucous. Administrators can’t be everywhere, so the students throw trash and mark up lockers. Lunch takes twenty minutes to serve so the students only have a few minutes of recess. The faculty is frazzled and cynical as many are asked to teach courses outside their certification areas to save money.
When you moved to Chappaqua, it was probably for the schools. It is unconscionable not to fund them and expect the same level of excellence. A class size of 23 at the middle school would be fine—at the elementary level it is ridiculous.
A Taxpayer too,
I still have two kids left in the system. One has graduated. The problem is that if you add another section, you will probably then have 16 or 17 in a class and your school with then not be equitable with the other schools. So basically, you would have to add 3 teachers at $400K. We have had years with our kids where we are at the level at Westorchard that you are concerned about. People found a way to manage fine. These are public schools… The school board should be applauded for holding the guideline. There has to be some discipline here. Every year I have been here the level of school budget that goes to salary and benefits keeps growing. Now it is over 80%. Used to be in the 50’s. I think you are out of places to cut budgets. This is our reality. Instead of complaining, let’s work together to be creative to solve solutions instead of just throwing bombs. Just a thought.
How about having retired citizens or stay at home mothers or fathers fill this void? There are plenty of people who are unemployed and would love a volunteer opportunity like this. My 85 year old mother is a volunteer teacher’s aide in New Jersey. She volunteers in the same classroom all year every Monday for the whole day, and the teachers, parents, and most importantly the children love her. She has been doing this for five years and it’s worked out great for everyone. I agree class size is very important but in light of the times, I don’t think we should be hiring. Maybe restructuring would be better.
I personally feel that based on my experience with 15 years as a parent in the school system, that a child could actually suffer from being part of a class of 25 students. I do feel that it should be balanced with regards to sex, so that they can feel close to their peers ( a ratio of 14 to 11 is not comfortable i believe). My children were in classes of up to around 24 to 25. Obviously under 23 is better. But, with all things being fair and equitable, other students went with more classmates and it would not be fair to the others who did not benefit or others who will not benefit. Of course, we want for our children. There are options. Send your child to Hackley or some other private institution. Education is expensive. If the government didn’t waste money maybe there would be more room for teachers and food for the under-privledged in this country. Everyone wants more! Be happy with what you have! Spend more time tutoring your child! It is worth it!!
Ms. Ferraro,
You pointed out that your son is not as proficient in his “letters” and reading as he could be because of his personality which is not outgoing. Therefore, he is less demanding of the teacher than others in the classroom.
Doesn’t he read at home?
My child learned to read at home before she went to kindergarten because she was ready. One cannot always depend on any school system to provide the singular needs of every child. My son had an early interest in astronomy and he learned astronomy and the fundamentals of science at home. We taught each of them according to their needs and proclivities. He took courses at Hayden Planetarium and it became his second home. He also took a science class that he loved outside of his regular school.
My children have enjoyed going to certain art exhibits, children’s theater, and concerts expressly for children, too. We have spent many wonderful hours reading to our children and interacting with them playing games.
Each child requires personalized attention for their individual learning needs as they develop. School is only one part of that learning environment.
Educated parents usually provide a rich and stimulating environment at home.
Do you really believe that ANY school or class size can provide the absolute and perfect learning environment for your child? Do you believe that having 2 or 3 fewer children in his class will satisfy his needs or advance his reading? Why are you so dependent upon the teacher?
There is literaature out there that can inform you how to work with your child. It does not require a magic bullet that only the teacher possesses.
Your interest and attention can accomplish so very much to advance his interests and his reading facility.
As one Chappaqua parent to another, I hope this is helpful.
It is commendable that “To Ms. Ferraro” offers enrichment education to his/her children. Perhaps he/she might consider teaching an After School Enrichment course. Enrichment is presently available at extra cost to the community. The taxes you pay anyway are meant for the children of this community to spend six hours per day, 182 days per year receiving excellent instruction by excellent teachers. Studies have shown that “time on task” is a a highly reliable predictor of academic success. By its very nature, the more children there are in a classroom, the less time is spent on task. Twenty is an ideal class size and the children of our community deserve an ideal class size. Please believe in my experience that 2 or 3 students make a huge difference in any classroom.
To Teacher and Resident:
My experience as a teacher is that good teachers manage 2 or 3 extra students very well.
Middle school children have always been more rambunctious because they are at the age of puberty. If you think that Chappaqua kids are “raucous,” how would you ever cope in a big city school?
If, as a teacher, you find the Chappaqua school system so egregious that you cannot manage to provide excellent education to your class of 26 or 28, I suggest that you resign and allow us to recruit a more accomplished teacher who would be happier in that position.
How much do you get paid for 6 hours a day? We taxpayers are paying close to a $150,000 including benefits for a 182 day year (as you pointed out). I believe that the school year should be extended and the school day should be longer. However, your union has fought these reforms. Yet you require that we residents augment your short hours and less than stellar performance with our time, energy, and skills. I have contributed, but you have no right to snidely suggest that we should do part of your job when we ask you to work within the guidelines of your contract.
Most people who reside here work a minimum of 240 days a year (if they have weekends off and a three week vacation which many do not). If you have ever commuted, you will find that the trains are crowded early in the morning and late at night in all kinds of weather. Tramping through the parking lot at ten or eleven at night in the icy snow and spending a half hour cleaning the ice and snow from your windows is not a lot of fun when you have just completed a 12 or 14 hour workday. Perhaps, in return for our contribution, you will join us in the parking lot at ten at night to help chip the ice off our windshields.
At the point that any educator becomes “cynical,” it is time to leave the profession. Our children’s education is far too precious to entrust it to those who feel they are no longer capable of performing well.
Gee, I didn’t think this discussion was about how easy my job is compared to yours. But before I go on, if you want your kids in an a non-air conditioned building 240 days per year then I’ll be happy to teach them for my same salary. Let it be very clear that this discussion is about overcrowding, which Chappaqua taxpayers have paid a great deal of money to avoid. I was not in favor of the present building configuration, but for now, we are stuck with it. Smaller classes are more nurturing and conducive to differentiated instruction. Your child deserves this.
I find it interestng that you say “your” kids not “my” or “our” kids.
Good teachers think of their students as “my” kids. Your hostile tone reveals your alienation from your students and their parents.
We doubt that class size would make you more “nurturing.”
Thank goodness you are not representative of the many fine teachers in the Chappaqua Schools.
You are the reason we are for advancement through evaluations not seniority. That is another reform that the union is opposing.
We need to relieve the system of the dead wood who are “cynical,” those who are simply hanging around until pension time.
It is time for parents to start evaluating teachers in order to recognize and offer advancement to the talented and dedicated.
Unfortunately, the union shields the “cynical” and “frazzled” but does not allow for advancement based on merit. In the private sector, no one has a job for life and no one is rewarded for longevity regardless of job performance.
Our children “deserve” competent and dedicated teachers who are not overwhelmed by the addition of 2 or 3 students to a class of 20. A class size of 23 still falls below the guidelines.
Again, this is a discussion about class size. It is not personal and should not be, considering you don’t know who I am, where, or what I teach. A large class negatively impacts overall student performance, particularly in the elementary grades. I would suggest that you visit the Edutopia website which shows the results of many studies which support this theory and others. Chappaqua Central School District students deserve the best learning scenarios, considering the taxes paid by the residents.
Re:
“Ms. Ferraro, You pointed out that your son is not as proficient in his “letters” and reading as he could be because of his personality which is not outgoing. Therefore, he is less demanding of the teacher than others in the classroom.”
One of the most beautiful things about parenting and teaching is watching a less outgoing first grader become a more outgoing 4th grader, middle schooler, etc. Kids change. Your son will eventually become very proficient in his letters and reading. By 4th grade he’ll probably be reading thick chapter books, it will be hard for you to imagine when he didn’t. Know this, and relax about the class size. Your calm will go further in helping him than any reduction in class size. Children are tested and assessed so often that many times it creates more problems than it identifies, primarily increased parent anxiety. They worry something is wrong with their child. “Testing and testing a child is like constantly digging up a plant to see how it’s roots are growing.” Language (especially in boys) isn’t full developed until age 11, when their brains finally “wire.” The best reader at age 6 usually is on par with everyone else by age 11 because the rest catch up. How many parents do you hear bragging about how great their 12 year old can read? Few, because by 12 most read well in Chappaqua. Your child is already at an advantage by having an involved parent. Relax and enjoy the school year, they grow up fast!
Let’s not be so hostile. We need to work together to educate our children. My daughter became a first grade teacher after completing her Master’s Degree in Education and I was amazed and astounded to find out how hard she worked - during class hours as well as after hours. I am a mother of four who spent hours and hours in the classroom but it wasn’t until my own daughter became a teacher that I realized how awesome and amazing teaching really is. So yes, most of us work really hard, going to work early, coming home late, taking trains, planes and cars but it is of no use to be hostile. A little kindness will go a long way here. And for the record, my children had a great experience and I would do it again in a heartbeat. My only regret is that I moved here after two of my children were already in college. The other two graduated from Greeley and had a wonderful experience that prepared them for college and beyond. I’m an empty nester and will definitely remain in Chappaqua.
If we decrease class size for second grade, then let’s look at class size for 3rd grade where we have 24 in a class. Then maybe we can look at 4th grade too. If you decrease one grade in one school, you will need to decrease all the grades in each elementary school. Then we need to look at our taxes, which will be increasing. Then when you give them smaller class sizes, will these parents still be happy. I doubt it!! Let’s say “no” to these demanding parents.
Not sure how this discussion went from one about class size in a particular grade at a particular school to one denigrating one of the most important professions around, but it has and it is sad that it has. Also, “To Ms. Ferraro” made an awful lot of assumptions about Ms. Ferraro’s parenting skills in his/her comments and those were unwarranted as well. And to “Hardworking Resident”, why do you choose to pick out one word and make such broad assumptions based on just that one word. I could say that you work such long hours because you don’t want to be home with your family. Maybe you don’t like spending time with your kids, you would rather stay at the office. I could say things about the kind of parent that makes you, but I won’t because I don’t know you. So next time you want to comment on an article, comment on the article and the topic at hand and keep your personal issues at home.
There have been more kids added to the roles at Westorchard ES including at least 1 more 2nd grader. So where is the new section the Board and Interim Superintendent promised if 1 more 2nd grader moved into the District? There is none and will be none. It is too late now to add a section. It should have been done when the grade was at the maximum and it looked like more students could move into the District. But they waited, purposely??, and now the classes are even more crowded.
To “parent of 3” who is concerned about the 3rd grade classes with 24 in them. I agree that that is too large but the Board guidlines allow for up to 25 students in each class in both 3rd and 4th grade. The maximum in 2nd grade is 23 (which is now exceeded in at least 1 class at WO). These are not set by “demanding” parents but by the Board of Education for the Chappaqua Central School District whom we vote into office. They are set because we want excellence in education for our children, that is why most people move to Chappaqua. We pay extraordinarily high taxes in order to ensure that our children are receiving as high a quality education as those who have gone before us. If the District is not using our tax dollars on our Teacher’s than I for one would like to know what it is using it for.
